Comments on: Faith and Family, moreover my faith and my family… http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/ my thoughts on the road to discipleship Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:50:50 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: I Love You So Much That I Hate You http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-31 I Love You So Much That I Hate You Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:30:32 +0000 http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-31 [...] November 23, 2007 at 7:44 pm [...] [...] November 23, 2007 at 7:44 pm [...]

]]> By: Hillary http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-25 Hillary Mon, 26 Nov 2007 01:11:17 +0000 http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-25 i appreciate your feelings on these verses i have to say, it pricked my heart a little bit to hear you say that you were leaving. akron will suffer your loss. but i am excited to see you go out from here, and what you will do i appreciate your feelings on these verses
i have to say, it pricked my heart a little bit to hear you say that you were leaving. akron will suffer your loss.
but
i am excited to see you go out from here, and what you will do

]]> By: joditucker http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-23 joditucker Sat, 24 Nov 2007 15:39:07 +0000 http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-23 Joe----we saw this coming! I will just have to send my pistachio marble cake recipe to whoever you may end up with at Thanksgiving, 2008 OR if you host Thanksgiving somewhere-----I'll send it to you!!.......Otherwise, you're always welcome at home! Please talk to Anne. She seems wise!! We will have to find someone who can be crazy with Frodo, the psycho dog, though! We had many years away from AKron prior to 1991 with Thanksgivings and Christmas's and they were more difficult for me than for your Dad.......love you, Mum Joe—-we saw this coming! I will just have to send my pistachio marble cake recipe to whoever you may end up with at Thanksgiving, 2008 OR if you host Thanksgiving somewhere—–I’ll send it to you!!…….Otherwise, you’re always welcome at home!
Please talk to Anne. She seems wise!! We will have to find someone who can be crazy with Frodo, the psycho dog, though! We had many years away from AKron prior to 1991 with Thanksgivings and Christmas’s and they were more difficult for me than for your Dad…….love you, Mum

]]> By: Anne http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-22 Anne Sat, 24 Nov 2007 09:54:44 +0000 http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-22 Thanks for this post, and for letting me see into your mind and struggles. As someone who has been away from home for two Thanksgivings now, here are a few thoughts that are not really biblical but from experience. If and when you go away (which I support, although Akron will miss you, and which I would like to chat with you about when I'm home), you will probably notice that, in the words of Kalil Gibran: "When you part from your friend, you grieve not; For that which you love most in him may be clearer in his absence, as the mountain to the climber is clearer from the plain. " I think this is true of family. Leaving your family will not change your affection for them, if anything, it will make it stronger. So the passage about "hating your family" will be no less true when you are away than when you are at home. Clearly Jesus did call us for sacrifice, love, and did not call us to a life of comfort. However, leaving your family to fulfill that particular verse will probably not work, either. I look forward to chatting about this in person! And to getting to see my family and friends after more than a year of being away! Thanks for this post, and for letting me see into your mind and struggles. As someone who has been away from home for two Thanksgivings now, here are a few thoughts that are not really biblical but from experience. If and when you go away (which I support, although Akron will miss you, and which I would like to chat with you about when I’m home), you will probably notice that, in the words of Kalil Gibran:
“When you part from your friend, you grieve not; For that which you love most in
him may be clearer in his absence, as the mountain to the climber is clearer from
the plain. ”
I think this is true of family. Leaving your family will not change your affection for them, if anything, it will make it stronger. So the passage about “hating your family” will be no less true when you are away than when you are at home. Clearly Jesus did call us for sacrifice, love, and did not call us to a life of comfort. However, leaving your family to fulfill that particular verse will probably not work, either.

I look forward to chatting about this in person! And to getting to see my family and friends after more than a year of being away!

]]> By: Christopher http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-20 Christopher Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:44:09 +0000 http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-20 Joe, Take a gander at Luke 14:33 "In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple." For what it's worth I think that your take on what you've received as instruction regarding Luke14:25-27 is on-track with Jesus' intent. The idea behind Luke 14:25-27, is as you stated: Jesus wasn't saying to actually hate family and others in order to follow him, rather your Love for Him should be so strong and passionate, that the love for anyone else would look like hate when the two are compared/contrasted. Consider the fact that Jesus being God in flesh, and having a distinct nature of being a Loving God, can not/does not do anything opposite or counter to His nature. It would then seem to make sense that Jesus was using a word opposite of His nature (as the Father), to drive home the point of how deep our love for Him should be. Consider also, the four types of love, specifically storge and agape which would fit the context of your post and the contrast between the two : storge, phiia, eros and agape, . STORGE: is fondness through familiarity, especially between family members or people who have otherwise found themselves together by chance. PHILIA: means friendship in modern Greek, a dispassionate virtuous love EROS: is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing AGAPE: In biblical literature, its meaning and usage is illustrated by self-sacrificing, giving love to all--both friend and enemy, unconditional love Notice in Luke 14:27 Jesus says: "And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple." in a way, i think that there's a double -meaning to this. "follow me" as in the sense of duplicate my efforts ("just as I sacrificed for you by going to the cross, you too must sacrifice [crucify your flesh, figuratively]) for my sake". "follow me" also meaning as in "I will lead you, my flock." The sacrifice(s) are not necessarily all physical, but in giving up what is near and dear as well if that is what the Father commands as a means to be strengthened in our walk or purpose. An additional thought comes from John 15:13 when Jesus says: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." I believe that Jesus was saying (not bragging mind you): " You wanna know about love? Let me tell you what true love is.. true love is to sacrifice, to give up what you want and desire most (life, peace,personal safety,happiness, comfort) in order to ensure that your friend's spiritual well being may be improved. That's true Love". A final thought to all of this is in Matthew 22:36-40: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Repeatedly the theme is L-O-V-E, perhaps God knows that we're a little thick in the skull and was ensuring that we got the message ; ) Apologies for blowing up your "blog minutes" with the response. (long-winded) Grace and peace be with you. Joe,

Take a gander at Luke 14:33 “In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.”

For what it’s worth I think that your take on what you’ve received as instruction regarding Luke14:25-27 is on-track with Jesus’ intent. The idea behind Luke 14:25-27, is as you stated: Jesus wasn’t saying to actually hate family and others in order to follow him, rather your Love for Him should be so strong and passionate, that the love for anyone else would look like hate when the two are compared/contrasted. Consider the fact that Jesus being God in flesh, and having a distinct nature of being a Loving God, can not/does not do anything opposite or counter to His nature. It would then seem to make sense that Jesus was using a word opposite of His nature (as the Father), to drive home the point of how deep our love for Him should be.

Consider also, the four types of love, specifically storge and agape which would fit the context of your post and the contrast between the two : storge, phiia, eros and agape, .

STORGE: is fondness through familiarity, especially between family members or people who have otherwise found themselves together by chance.
PHILIA: means friendship in modern Greek, a dispassionate virtuous love
EROS: is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing
AGAPE: In biblical literature, its meaning and usage is illustrated by self-sacrificing, giving love to all–both friend and enemy, unconditional love

Notice in Luke 14:27 Jesus says: “And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.” in a way, i think that there’s a double -meaning to this.

“follow me” as in the sense of duplicate my efforts (“just as I sacrificed for you by going to the cross, you too must sacrifice [crucify your flesh, figuratively]) for my sake”.

“follow me” also meaning as in “I will lead you, my flock.”

The sacrifice(s) are not necessarily all physical, but in giving up what is near and dear as well if that is what the Father commands as a means to be strengthened in our walk or purpose.

An additional thought comes from John 15:13 when Jesus says: “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” I believe that Jesus was saying (not bragging mind you): ” You wanna know about love? Let me tell you what true love is.. true love is to sacrifice, to give up what you want and desire most (life, peace,personal safety,happiness, comfort) in order to ensure that your friend’s spiritual well being may be improved. That’s true Love”.

A final thought to all of this is in Matthew 22:36-40:
36″Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37Jesus replied: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Repeatedly the theme is L-O-V-E, perhaps God knows that we’re a little thick in the skull and was ensuring that we got the message ; )

Apologies for blowing up your “blog minutes” with the response. (long-winded)

Grace and peace be with you.

]]> By: alex petz http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-19 alex petz Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:22:13 +0000 http://joetucker.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/faith-and-family-moreover-my-faith-and-my-family/#comment-19 jo i think you're taking this verse wildly out of context. hang on to it for awhile, read the big chunk before it, and after it. read about when Jesus's mother and brothers came to see him and waited outside. think about what it means to be close to your father... we'll talk about sometime. it was kind of earth shattering. jo

i think you’re taking this verse wildly out of context. hang on to it for awhile, read the big chunk before it, and after it. read about when Jesus’s mother and brothers came to see him and waited outside.

think about what it means to be close to your father…

we’ll talk about sometime.

it was kind of earth shattering.

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